Life, Liberty, and anything else but Sleep (Ljova) ([info]whatmepractice) wrote,
@ 2006-08-24 08:52:00
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sellaband.com -- danger danger!




A friend sent me a link to an article about the new music service SellABand.com.

(from the blurb):
The concept encourages music fans to invest $10 shares in their favorite group, and then aggregates those contributions. Once a group reaches the $50,000 mark, the real action begins, and the band is sent to the studio to begin serious recording. SellaBand noted that it is "not a record company," but rather "a facilitator, bringing artists and fans together, and presenting a new economic model."


At first, I was intrigued, and then I thought - what do THEY (i.e. Sellaband) get out of this? As it turned out, a whole lot more than any band that signs up.
Here's a list of my fears about this site, most of them generated by looking at their FAQ page.



1) If a band raises less than $50,000 and wants an out, can they keep the money they raised? If yes (which is not at all clear now), how much of the money will Sellaband keep for "transaction costs"? I estimate that 90% of the bands which sign up won't be able to reach that goal, so I'm especially curious to see where the money goes.

2) It looks like you have to use the producers they recommend. Score one for creative freedom.

3) (from the
Terms and Conditions): "Once an Artist has officially reached the Goal of $50,000 he/she is obliged to fulfill the recording commitment with SellaBand. Of the $50,000, $30,000 will be used for recording the CD. SellaBand will assign an A&R- manager who will book the producer, studio and mastering facility. The rest of the budget will be used for manufacturing, packaging and posting the 5,000 CDs for your Believers."


That's nice of them. I wonder how much studio time that buys, and at what rate. Basically what this says is that they're guaranteeing their friends at the recording/mastering facility to earn $30,000 (to the nearest penny?!), and to spend another $20,000 on (what is essentially) duplication. (A comparable duplicaton service from Discmakers will cost about $5,000). What if you need MORE studio time, or want to hire a more expensive producer? No dice.

Anotherwords, none of the $50,000 you and your fans raised goes to you. It goes to everyone but you and your band. However:

4) (more from Terms and Conditions):
"As a SellaBand recording artist you are entitled to earn money via the Download Portal. All net advertising revenues generated on www.sellaband.com will be shared equally by Artists, Believers and SellaBand. The income per Artist and their Believers is based on the market share of the artist on the Downloadportal."


Nice recovery... But what is a Downloadportal?! I thought you're going to give away my music for free, and now my only source of revenue is advertising and the Downloadportal?! .. Presumably from selling music by other artists?!

5) $50,000 -- who earns it? You or Sellaband? The company is based in Germany but deals in dollars. What are the specifics with regard to tax?

In short:
1) none of the money goes to you and the band -- until you raise $50,000, and maybe your album gets some airplay. (Did I mention that they take 30% of your publishing?!)

2) you get zero creative control

3) the top artist on Sellaband (a Dutch heavy-metal outfit called Nemesea has raised $4340 in the past 9 days, but has only 347 friends on MySpace.

4) Tell me - how is this different from being at a major label?!


Do the math, check it again, and think for yourself.


(Post a new comment)

It's different than being at a major label
(Anonymous)
2006-08-25 06:00 pm UTC (link)
... because a major/publisher actually gives you an advance and covers your promotion/marketing/advertising/publicity costs, which Sellaband, as far as I can tell, does not. Suffice to say I share your concerns. I have my own, enumerated on my blog: www.crowdsourcing.com.

Jeff Howe
Wired Magazine
(couldn't get OpenID to recognize my URL)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: It's different than being at a major label
[info]whatmepractice
2006-08-26 04:00 pm UTC (link)
thanks, Jeff!

yes indeed.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Sellaband - artists an believers are in charge
(Anonymous)
2006-08-27 07:24 pm UTC (link)
eh 347 friends. That's not their Myspace ...
www.myspace.com/nemeseaband.

O and ..If a band want to get out believers can get their money back.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Sellaband - artists an believers are in charge
[info]whatmepractice
2006-08-27 07:26 pm UTC (link)
oops! you're right.
re "money back" -- can you make that official, then - please?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sellaband - artists an believers are in charge
(Anonymous)
2006-08-27 07:29 pm UTC (link)
From Sellaband.com FAQ

What happens with my money when an Artist decides to leave SellaBand?
Your money will be deposited back on your SellaBand account. You can choose to get a Part in a different Artist or to get your money back.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Sellaband - artists an believers are in charge
(Anonymous)
2006-08-27 07:34 pm UTC (link)
O and :
What influence do I, as an artist, have on the recording process?
It's your music, it's your choice. So yes you have influence on the recording process. You are responsible for the end result of the recording process. But the A&R Manager is there to help you to get the most out of you, to get the best producer and studio and to make sure that you stay within your budget.

Can we only work with the producers and studios linked to SellaBand or can we make our own suggestions?
Sure you can make suggestions for other producers or studios. But remember it all has to fit in the budget.
(also sellaband.com -faq)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Sellaband - artists an believers are in charge
(Anonymous)
2006-08-28 08:54 am UTC (link)
re "money back" -- can you make that official, then - please?

Here it is ( in Sellabands FAQ )
What happens with my money when an Artist decides to leave SellaBand?Your money will be deposited back on your SellaBand account. You can choose to get a Part in a different Artist or to get your money back.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sellaband - artists an believers are in charge
[info]whatmepractice
2006-08-28 12:33 pm UTC (link)
oh! but that's on the *BELIEVER'S* side, not on the ARTIST'S side.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

In short: reaction on SellaBand
(Anonymous)
2006-08-29 09:04 am UTC (link)
Here's an official reaction from the creators of the SellaBand concept:

1. If a band never reaches 50k, and decides to leave, they haven't fulfilled their recording commitment, hence the money goes back to the owners i.e. the fans. They're called Believers and can either get their money back or put it on another artist's account.
2. Bands have full creative control. The only assigned person is the A&R manager who will guide the whole process. Bands get to choose their own producers and studios as long as it fits in the budget. The experts are there to help them, not control their creativity.
3. Wrong assumption. Nemesea have over 3,000 friends on MySpace. They have raised over 5,000$ in less than two weeks. You don't have to be a scientist to see that at this pace, they will be in the studio recording their album before the end of the year or early 2007.
4. SellaBand is not a record label. There are only two commitments for bands. First: Record the album once the 50k is on their account, so all Believers will get a personal, limited edition of the CD delivered to their homes and second: register the songs they record with SellaBand under SellaBand Publishing, of which they will keep 60%. Why do we share in the publishing? Because we created the platform, because we facilitate the recording/manufacturing/distribution of the CD and especially because we give away 66,6% of our advertising revenues. Lastly, bands will get full ownership of the recording master after 12 months. Why after 12 months? To protect the rights of the Believers and make sure they can share in the revenues.
Oh, by the way, the downloadportal will be in operation once the first band has recorded it's music with SellaBand. All advertising revenues will be equally split between the band, their believers and sellaband. There will also be regular hard copies of the album for sale (in our shop, through retail-outlets and for bands to sell at their shows) and profits will be shared between bands and believers.

Best regards,
Johan Vosmeijer
Managing Director of SellaBand

PS We are a German company, with mostly Dutch people running the day to day business. The reason we communicate in dollars has nothing to do with tax reasons (actually we'd be much better off using the euro as our official currency), but because we figured (and correct us if we're wrong) that this is a worldwide concept and everybody is familiar with the dollar and outside of Europe hardly anyone is aware of the Euro.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: In short: reaction on SellaBand
[info]whatmepractice
2006-08-29 09:45 pm UTC (link)
Johan, thank you for your comments and clarifications.
I hope this helps whoever reads this.

I personally feel that the believers are there 95% to help the band record new music (or get an exclusive CD), and maybe 5% to help them reach a quite lofty -- and yet on the other hand rather insufficient -- $50,000 goal.

Still the questions remain -- what happens if a band records an album *below* or *above* budget of $50,000? Does the band ever see any money from the $50,000 (for example, do they get paid for their recording session time, hotel, travel, related expenses?)

If Sellaband embarks on a promotional campaign for an artist, will this come out of the artist's Pocket or Sellaband's?

Thank you!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: In short: reaction on SellaBand
(Anonymous)
2007-02-20 04:03 pm UTC (link)
Artists won't get below or above budget, because if they record one "below" it means they did that themselves with their own money. There are only 5000 shares per artist for sale so there's no "above" either.

I suggest you take another look at sellaband as it stands today, they really matured alot since august.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Same old music industry...
(Anonymous)
2006-08-29 11:12 pm UTC (link)
The music industry went social. To outsource the risk, that is.

Take a look at how these guys work - there are two music industry old-timers and one apparently new guy in the company. They take the riskiest part of the music industry (finding and financing new talent) and lump that risk on the fans. So now they don't even need to risk the money on taking a raw new artist and turning them into a hit machine. If the band is any good, guess who has the inside running on signing them up into the old-style industry? The guys at sellaband.

Look at their business model. Does anyone honestly think that they expect to make ANY money from advertising!??!? How generous that they split 33/33/33 the revenues from a marginal sideline. Anyone looking at the music industry knows that the revenue from sales of a new band’s CDs are pitiful (they never pay back their recording costs) - it has always been about finding the next hit band that will sell millions. So offloading the costs of this discovery process onto the fans, then cherry-picking anything that looks popular, is a very sensible (from a business perspective) way forward.

I would be very surprised if a band that got any significant fundraising through this mechanism failed to attract professional attention. The industry has been looking for a way to measure the conversion of "myspace friends" (which are free, and determined principally by hours on mysapce) into music purchasers (which depend on an infectious sound). Sellaband is an excellent way of performing that exact measurement. The number of "Believers", rather than the value of parts purchased, will be of most interest to any label, as that is a good proxy for future sales.

Don't get me wrong - I have the utmost respect for anyone who can come up with a business model where you get consumers to buy risk from you. These guys are sharp, and will no doubt go far.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Same old music industry...
(Anonymous)
2007-03-18 03:06 pm UTC (link)
I'm a believer and here is the deal:
You help artists you like to their dream. It's like pre-ordering a limited edition CD for $10. Also you might get some money back. This is simply a very good deal.
Even if its just a hop-up to a big label the artist is in this model way closer to their fans during the process and i believe artists will be chosen more for their music then their appearance which is major problem of the present music industry.
Maybe in the long term the founders will get some good cash out of it, I think they'd fully deserve it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Same old music industry...
(Anonymous)
2007-03-25 06:01 am UTC (link)
something nobody seems to be picking up on...

"believers" put money into a bank account. it will take a long long time to make the 50k. this money is now available for investment by the site owners, to do with as they will. The appropriate time that they will refund you the money is the time it takes them to retrieve it from its current investment

This is free investment capital, sellaband is really an investment fund in disguise and should be regulated accordingly.

and yeah, once the money is raised, they get to spend it on their own professional services. the 20k for producing and shipping discs is such a sham, it is MUCH cheaper than that to get it done. and also, most "believers" don't put in 10 dollars they put in more, so one disc each means there will eb say 1000 discs max sent. I doubt a person who puts in 100 USD will ask for 10 equally worthloess copiable discs....

and yes, it's all about the old music industry in the end, any band wants to make it big, and they can only do that through a real label. unless sellaband think that they can "herd" the new stars along and beome a stable of their own

gahh, it's terrible, thhe music industry so plays on people's dreams. Why don't they have a "sellanactor", where you raise 50k dollars to put a person through acting school in the hopes that they will make it big in Hollywood?

sellastudent, put 'e through wharton to make it big on Wall street (some chance of success there at least....)

don'\t like this outfit one little bit, as they are taxing people who hope and dream and sell them lies.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Same old music industry...
(Anonymous)
2007-03-30 08:11 pm UTC (link)
Actually if you look you see the money goes into an ESCROW account, which is completely separate from the bank account used for the day to day running of the company. As a third-party service, believers money is safe from being eaten into by Sellaband and only gets transferred once the $50K for that artist is met.

Interestingly the question of multiple disc copies has been raised by believers themselves, because those with 100 parts will indeed get 100 discs. Keep watching the site, because when those first CDs arrive in June, there will indeed be some kind of official answer from Sellaband to this.

All I can say in the meantime is that based on the number of new believers signing up to Sellaband who seem to be regretting missing out on the 4 artists who have already made their 50K (in particular Nemesea) there is going to be more of a market for those CDs than you realise - I know I have already found homes for 52 of my "spare" CDs from the artists who have made 50K.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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